And thank YOU!

Said by: Tor Billgren at May 2, 2006 01:49 AM

Fausto & Mark. You know I love you guys oodles so don't take this personally. On the immigration issue I think you guys are missing some things. Why are millions of people coming illegally from Mexico and the same thing doesn't happen from Canada? The Mexican government is more corrupt than the US government (not by much). Canada is probably only slightly less corrupt than the US. The US is basically the pressure release valve for Mexico. If the protestors really wanted to make a change they would be protesting for reform in Mexico. I’m sure most of the people here illegally are only in search of a better life, but does that make breaking our laws ok? I work with and know a lot of immigrants from different countries (France, India, China, Vietnam) and they all came here legally and are going through the process to become citizens legally. Basically 11 million people want to cut in front of them. If you were in line at a store, waiting for a long time and people just started to cut in front of you, how would that make you feel? Just because 11 million people break our laws, it does not make it right. Ask yourself what would happen if 11 million American citizens went illegally to Mexico and protested. I think there would be 11 million American in jail held with no rights. There is no easy solution, but giving 11 million people who broke the law a reward for breaking the law send a bad signal.

Said by: Gary at May 2, 2006 10:17 AM

The US needs to be thinking of Mexico like Canada. The reality of the situation is that imigrant labor is the backbone of many industries here in the US like Agriculture and the restaurant/entertainment/hotels.

If you want to keep people from fleeing Mexico to come to the US, then the US needs to open up trade with Mexico like they have with Canada. I am in no means an expert or even educated on the matter, so this is just an observation or opinion.

Why don't US citizens show this much passion for demanding universal health care? Including comprehensive MENTAL health care which I belive (besides the environment) is one of the major problems we face today.

Said by: Fausto at May 2, 2006 10:23 AM

Fausto

NAFTA is the North American Free Trade Agreement which includes Mexico, Canada and the US. So as far as trade goes, Canada & Mexico are treated the same. you are correct that the millions of illegal immigrants work very hard, and are probably more willing to do jobs that American citizens are not willing to do for the pay that is offered. I come back to the original issue. Does that make breaking the law the right thing to do. I believe that gays and lesbians should be able to marry, but unfortunately that is not the law of my state. I work to one day change the law, but live with the laws we have now. What would the world be like if everyone just started to break laws that they didn't like or agree with.

The resources of this country are limited. I agree that the leaders do not always have the same priorities as I do, and unfortunately with limited resources the country needs to set priorities. If we did have universal health care I can see the amount of illegal immigration skyrocketing to the point that tax paying citizens wouldn't have any healthcare to speak of. Just my 2 cents.

I guess the basis of my opinion is bottom line, breaking the law to make a better life for yourself and your family is teaching your family that it is ok to break the law and disrespect others if it gets you what you want. That is why a large portion of this country is turned off by these protests. The protest should be at the Mexican embasies towards the Mexican government to improve the living and working conditions of their citizens in Mexico.

Said by: Gary at May 2, 2006 11:22 AM

Gary, thought you'd be interested to hear this... there was a SHORT section on npr yesterday morning about people protesting in Mexico, trying to get a message to the Mexican gov't. I don't think it got much media coverage.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=5374813

Said by: Maia at May 2, 2006 12:32 PM

If I understand the bill correctly it seeks to strengthen immigration enforcement and have more severe punishment for undocumented workers and those who aid them. I don't see the problem with that. I do understand that immigrants do take alot of jobs that others are unwilling to do such as bussing tables and/or washing dishes (But those are also jobs that legal High School and College students could do, and need).

It seems that this is being gone about the wrong way, people are getting caught up in it and we're not seeing what the real problem is.

The bottom line, like Gary said, is that the immigrants shouldn't be entering and working in the United States, It's against the law. That said, we need to step back, take a look at what is driving them to enter the U.S., and then fix it.

Also, though, you can't just kick people out. That would be like giving someone a speeding ticket 4 years after it occured, it's too late.

So, give the immigrants that are already here rights, do a better job at keeping further immigrants from entering, find out what is driving them cross the border in the first place, and then fix it.

That's probably alot more cut and dry then it really is, and I'm not 100% informed on the topic, but from what I've heard, that seems to be the most logical solution.

Said by: Ben at May 2, 2006 01:12 PM

If you take out all the other factors like race, economics, politics and just look at facts. The US can't take everyone from every country. That is just a fact. You then need to have a controlled way of allowing people to become a part of this country. There are people seeking political asylum, there are people fleeing genocide, there are people fleeing poverty, there are people just looking for a new start. What makes 1 person more deserving than the next? A gay person from Egypt may come here because he will be put to death if he goes home. Is the person who comes here illegally from Mexico to make money to send home to Mexico more deserving than the man from Egypt? I don't have the answers, I am just raising the point. There are rules we follow, and most people follow them most of the time. Because you don't like a rule or your living situations doen't give you the right to disreguard the laws of other countries and completely disrespect that countries citizens. When I travel to other countries I am mindful of their customs and laws. I wish other citizens of the world would do the same. It would be a much nicer world.

Said by: Gary at May 2, 2006 01:59 PM

I totally agree with you on that point.

Said by: Ben at May 2, 2006 02:28 PM

Gary and Ben thanks for all your comments, thoughts and insights here.
[But these comments should be on the other post guys!] But wherever the muse strikes your fancy is fine with me...

I wish the U.S. goverment was as repsectful of other countries as it's citizens are when they travel abroad.

The reality is that not all imigrants are treated equally here in the U.S. Nor is Mexico treated on the same level as Canada is.

There are a multitude of cultural, language, and economic barriers to overcome.

Besides, India and China is laughing at all of this all the way to the bank. Nobody seems to be discussing outsourcing in this debate either. High-tech jobs are going overseas, including Mexico.

American corporations look too often to the dollar and disregard the impact their policies have in their own back yard. The way motor companies have bankrupted the midwest is shameful and embarassing. The fact remains the youth of this country won't do the jobs that Mexican immigrants do. Anyone who wants to send all the illegal aliens back home should be prepared to start paying a LOT more money when they go out to eat, stay in a hotel, take a cab, pay for landscaping, and even for produce at the grocery store.

There are bigger issues here than weather someone can stay or go home. And the current policies will make matters worse for EVERYONE, not just immigrants.

This, after all is a wedge issue meant to distract us from the tremendous waste of money the Bush administration has done in launching a war overseas and the way it's managed the budget (tax cuts, are they NUTS?) at home.

If we're all worried about immigrants, we wont notice that our economic future is being robbed from us by the Republicans wholesale.

Do you guys think this is just a distraction from the mess that Bush has made?

Said by: Fausto at May 2, 2006 02:28 PM

Fausto

I promise this is my last wack at beating this dead horse.

Bush is trying to divide the country, that is the only way for the Republicans to retain power.

You are obviously an idealist and believe life should be fair. I got a memo when I was born, it said "Life isn't fair". Not everyone can be as hot as Marc. I'm a realist. Why are Cubans given automatic asylum coming to this country when a Mexican with the same skin color, education, and money would be deported. To me it isn't fair that the Cuban is treated better. You are right, Canadians have a much easier time coming to this country. I work in the high teck industry. I have 2 coworkers who got green cards coming from Canada. They originally are from China and Vietnam, but since they came through Canada they got in easier than other coworkers who came directly from China. Is that fair? I don't think so. Does it make it fair that 11 million Mexicans just decided to bypass the system alltogether? If you are an idealist, as I believe you are, you would see that the illigal immigration by people from all over isn't fair.

Why do people who come here automatically assume that they are owed anything. Mexico has restrictions on where non-Mexicans can live, what kind of property they can own, they even have restrictions on how much money you must have if you want to live in Mexico if you are not born a Mexican citizen. Is that fair???

You are probably right, it is a wedge issue the Republicans will try and use to divide and conquer, but it's a subject you brought up, and I disagree with you on it.

Said by: Gary at May 2, 2006 03:42 PM

Fausto, I did notice that the comments should be on the other post, but I just thought i'd go with it.

Said by: Ben at May 2, 2006 08:03 PM

Part of the reason Mexicans and other oppressed peoples of the 3rd World
flee to the U.S. is to escape the poverty party caused by U.S. foreign policy. I was on a delegation that visited Guatamala in 1998 and heard and witnessed evidence of mass graves of the U.S. sponsored death squads brought to power in 1954 when the U.S. helped overthrow a democratically elected government, just as they have done in Chile, Iran, Haiti, etc. (see William Blum's books for an introduction).
The U.S. should allow anyone who wants to come visit here to go through customs and do so (obviously if there's intelligence on them that they are terrorists, like Orlando Bosch and other Cuban-American terrorists who live free in Miami, then they should not be allowed in.), let everyone have equal labor rights and make it easy for them to become U.S. citizens if they want to.
If we allow the U.S. government to keep immigrant workers as "guest workers" at the mercy of the boss, or "undocumented" where they aren't protected by U.S. labor laws and get deported when they organize, then they can drive down the wages of other U.S. workers also. We need workers' unity to struggle against the bosses. I support the millions who are marching in the streets for immigrant rights! We need to struggle for Jobs For All At Decent Wages! Yellow, Brown, Black, and White, Workers Of The World, Unite!

Said by: Workers' Unity at May 3, 2006 12:16 AM

Hi Fausto & Marc, I'm listening to the Swedish station that interviewed you but I have yet to hear your interview.

On the immigration topic there are at least two points that aren't covered by the U.S. media-

1- The greater story is the responsibility the former President of Coca-Cola for Mexico and the Latin American region turned Mexican President, President Fox, has to improve the Mexican economy that would dissuade mexicans to flee by the masses to find a job north of the border that will feed them. Did you notice I stated that President Fox is formerly the Latin American regional President of Coca-Cola? He's no stranger to corporations and the asset a company and/or corporation has in a labor force that is so cheap it gets pennies in compensation.

2- George W. Bush will have no intention to stop the influx of cheap labor into this country so his friends that are all corporately connected will continue to get their pockets lined by literally the sweat of poor workers backs.

and 3- Why do you say US citizens should start treating Mexico like Canada? When was the last time you went to a restaurant and all the kitchen help and busboy staff were illegal Canadians? I have yet to see illegal Canadians picking our tomatoes and hanging outside Home Depot. Frankly, we treat Canada and Mexico differently because they are different and the challenges we have as national neighbors vary greatly.

Fausto, you know that I've been exploring the option of immigrating myself to the EU. I couldn't expect to land in an EU nation and avoid immigration laws and then demand that all that "pesky" paperwork be thrown aside and just make me a citizen! My ass would be in jail and then on the next flight out of their country. Why, I guess someone could claim that as a foreigner I didn't respect their country or laws from the very start if I didn't follow their basic rules, fill out the proper forms and get in line.

It's very unfortunate for the Mexican immigrants that President Fox does nothing to raise the minimum wage in Mexico and President Bush will look the other way so that when they do cross the border they will quickly get exploited as undocumented workers to keep putting money in the US corporations hand.

Demand that President Fox take control of his nation and provide an environment that a person can live with.

Said by: Jimmy McBean at May 3, 2006 12:56 AM